Comments on: Remember the Liberty!

By: bruce judelson

bruce judelson — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 04:12:58 +0000

israel didn’t need america in the war. in 1956 britain and france were in the way. in 1967 israel beat arab nations without america in 6 days. you think america would have made it faster or better. if so explain iraq–with our excessive time there.

it has further been suggested above as to american motives- were there a conspiracy. even were that valid –as i said– israel didn’t need it. it is inconsistent with israel’s character.
highly unlikely that this inflammatory claim has much in the way of merit.

By: jim kearney

jim kearney — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 03:19:54 +0000

Bruce,

You are letting your Jewish heritage get the best of you here. If the United States wanted to get into a war why would it be so far fetched to allow this to happen?

How did we get into it with the Japanese – Pearl Harbor – you don’t question anything about whether or not we knew that was coming in advance do you?

What about Germany? You don’t believe that sending the hospital ship out there to get attacked was a mistake do you?

Come on, we all know it happens. This is just another one of those times. Just because you are Jewish doesn’t make it a lie.

By: seangalt

seangalt — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 00:00:27 +0000

I think there are lots of reasons for libertarians to be interested.

Perhaps I’ll go into later. I’m on a webinar right now.

You can read about the source from the original article, and the relevant reviews on Amazon.

By: bruce judelson

bruce judelson — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:52:47 +0000

seangalt wrote”

Why would two Israeli pilots go to jail for 18 years rather than attack the ship?
Why the personal attacks on the rest of the crew when they tried to expose the story?

……………………….
Why would you believe any government?”

all good points to consider if true. don’t know your source. it is true that no government should get a free pass re the truth. it is also the case that israel being repeatedly (ad nauseam) subjected to (unbelievably) vicious press that i see a reason to give their own position credibility.

as i say this stuff is interesting. i don’t see its relevance in libertarian circles though. it does tend to grate on nerves.

By: seangalt

seangalt — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:12:38 +0000

Just one more comment for now – re: your comment – “it seems ludicrous to suggest a deliberate attack”. Why?

Actually, it makes a lot of sense. Attack, and blame it on Egypt, and bring the US into the war. What they did not count on was the survivors and the US Navy EC-121 intelligence aircraft recording the attack.

By: seangalt

seangalt — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:10:18 +0000

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for your comments.

Are you sure you are not letting your feelings get in way of the facts?

I would suggest reading some of the reviews on Amazon. I think you would find them interesting.

Some questions to consider:

Why would two Israeli pilots go to jail for 18 years rather than attack the ship?

Why the personal attacks on the rest of the crew when they tried to expose the story?

What about the evidence from the US Navy EC-121 intelligence aircraft that was flying high overhead the “Liberty” and electronically recorded the attack?

Why would you believe any government?

What would it take you to convince you that you are wrong?

We can’t let our feelings get in way of the truth.

As for me, so far, the evidence presented so far does not support the official story.

By: bruce judelson

bruce judelson — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:57:11 +0000

having said all that, my condolences to those who lost their lives or otherwise suffered.

By: bruce judelson

bruce judelson — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:55:50 +0000

while any innocent (or 3rd party or collateral) life lost is tragic. president johnson’s (attributed) failure to talk up the issue was likely one of the few (assuming any others) virtues of his administration. he had not fulfilled on pre-existing contracts-orders- for desperately needed planes, etc.
in spite of that — israel won. the firing on the ship while definitely unfortunate and regrettable is not a legitimate issue for rallying sympathy against israel. in fact it is the type of thing i generally have the most difficulty with on libertarian websites– when such a story is highlighted.

By: bruce judelson

bruce judelson — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:45:23 +0000

i for one do not believe that israel deliberately attacked an american vessel. they were about to fight egypt, jordan, and syria. it could have –but didn’t– involve lebanon too. given (probable iraqi, iranian) –definitely soviet– (and likely others support against them((israel)) it seems ludicrous to suggest a deliberate attack–and certainly even in the highly unlikely case of a deliberate attack(that such a thing be sanctioned by israeli leadership– even if with the worst of their leadership). no i maintain it was accidental. i don’t get the value of propping up a pro-palestinian or other anti-israel cause as having any validity. at most the attack is a historical oddity. in war things go badly even for the victor.